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I had one of those freaky-ass dreams this morning just before waking and the image will not go away.
My parents and I were going to meet some friends of theirs who lived on an estate of some kind where a wedding was taking place. As we were walking through the grounds, we came upon the reception at the cake-cutting point. It turned out the bride was a clown and the groom was an astronaut (like, professionally on both counts, that wasn't how they were dressed for the ceremony). As we watched, they went into this slapstick routine which culminated in the groom falling over behind the table. When he stood up, he had on this horrifying costume that was a 9-foot-tall, two-headed drag queen, with a torso extension so that the groom's head came out of the 'ribs' of the body. (somehow, in the way dreams do, his real arms came out of the shoulders of the extension part) That two-headed drag queen is the image I can't get out of my skull.

I've been having a really interesting time of writing lately. And by interesting I mostly mean difficult. It's made me examine my writing process more, and learn stuff about how I work though, which is probably good.

I am not a planner. Not when it comes to writing. Which is a little bit odd, given how much I need to look at five maps before I go anywhere, but it is what it is. When I write, I start with a sentence in my head and go from there. I've often said that the characters are in charge, and to some extent they are, but language is also in charge. Generally, I write wholly in language. Which is to say that I don't have any kind of picture in my head of what's going on, I don't see scenes like a movie, the whole 'picture' is built of words. It's one reason I like dialogue and interior monologue so much, I guess. I'm learning to describe rooms and vistas and people, because other readers care about those things, and I've found that the specificity of detail gives a lot of depth. But mostly I'm concerned with feelings, emotions and thoughts.

Generally speaking, I have NO IDEA where my stories are going to go. The characters interact, and then they interact some more, and things happen, and hopefully the characters come to some emotional conclusion, epiphany, or resolution. Usually they do. The characters talk to me, tell me what's going on.

As examples from some of the stuff I've done this week, when I went to write Getting By, all I started with was the sentence, It's 9:30 Sunday night and Sammy doesn't have a single shirt that doesn't have dirt or food or something blue that Dean isn't even sure what it is on it. I didn't know that the boys were staying in a Motel with a laundry room, that Dean was going to use his lockpicks to solve the problem, that Sam was sleeping, that Dean was going to have morals about stealing. Nothing. The sentence sounded right in my head, and it gave me a problem and a POV character, and we were off.

With No Place Like Home, I had Dean remembers their house, the stairs, the way the hall light always made mom's hair look silver instead of gold, but he doesn't remember it in time, and the notion that HOME for Dean is the Impala. No grand scheme of what that would look like.

Even with Powerverse, all I knew about the ending when I started was that Sam would find a way to save Dean. And it was a struggle to figure out how that was going to happen, and to make use of the clues the characters threw in my path, but it was a struggle for the characters to figure things out, too, and so it felt organic.

I often feel like nothing more than a recording secretary for my characters. Which is fine. It's great. It's how I work, and I know that really it's my brain doing the writing.

However, when I actually try to involve my brain, things start to go awry. As you may have gathered from some of my posts, I am writing a couple fic-exchange fics at the moment. The first one is from a prompt that gave me an idea. Not a first sentence, but like, a PLOT idea. OOOH! my brain said. It could go HERE! and THIS could happen, and then THIS! And I did some research, and thought of more ideas, and had plans. And I even found a first sentence. And sat down to write. And wrote 15,000 words of backstory that barely even BRUSH the plot I planned. And yes, what I planned was always going to be the end of the fic, but I'm starting to wonder if I can ever get there. It's like the characters are allergic to knowing their futures. Like they want to avoid their destiny if they know about it in advance. Which I can kind of see. If I knew I was going to end up doing ABC, I would want to get in as much living as possible before I got to the part where I lost my free will. But a part of me thinks it's a little weird to ascribe those same motivations to characters in my head.


The second fic is challenging me in another way. I said that I think and write all in words. Somehow, for this fic, I do actually have an image of what's happening. I can imagine it clearly. However, I cannot put words to it at all. It's like coming in on the middle of a movie where you can't hear the soundtrack, and trying to figure out what is going on. You could say, "oh, those two people are having sex in position XYZ," but that doesn't make for a very interesting story to retell. Tab A goes in Slot B is not so much my thing. I want my words back, but all I have is pictures! It makes me even more mystified by all of you who see scenes like a film playing out in your brains.

The first problem I'm solving by letting the story find its own breaking point and giving the plotted part time to recede so that the characters can find their own way into it in a part two of the story. The second problem I'm not totally sure how to solve. I think I need to block out the image as much as possible and try to come at it again from underneath where the POV character feels. What he wants and why. I'm hoping I don't have to scrap and start over. Either way, though, all of this has been a real learning experience.

I just got a text from Scott. Apparently we're going to see Twilight tonight. I had no plans whatsoever to do that, but I like going to the movies with them, and at least it will let me in on the buzz *g*

On that note, I should probably shower and go find some food that isn't Nilla Cakesters, because the thought makes me want to vom.

today's nano writing, apparently wanted to be meta.
There are 19 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 
posted by [identity profile] dreamlittleyo.livejournal.com at 06:37pm on 22/11/2008
Real food is good. Creepy-ass dreams are not. Bleah, I hate getting an image like that in my head RIGHT BEFORE WAKING, when you know it will just sit with you all day and keep on creeping you the hell out.

I always LOVE getting glimpses into your writer brain, my dear, because (as we've discussed on multiple occasions, so forgive my redundancy) it is so COMPLETELY COUNTER to how writing works in my brain. I've only recently started to sit down once in awhile and write a story just to see where it goes one scene at a time -- and really, I've only started doing that since we started talking about writing styles, because honestly, it never OCCURRED to me to write that way before.

I don't know if it's the vague (potentially diagnosable ;p) OCD or the fact that I tend to forget things very quickly, but I have ALWAYS written in outlines. Granted, it used to be outlines that never MADE it to fic rather than the current outline-then-fic arrangement, but still. If I need to write a small fic to a narrow concept, I still sit down and... brainstorm a ramble-tastic outline before I start writing the fic proper. Sometimes the outline ends up with whole scenes embedded in it, because I don't bother trying to silence the muse at that point in the process. But I still very much have an outline that tells me "this scene, then this scene, then something like THIS has to happen" before I sit down and really start to write.

This is even MORE ridiculous for long fics, because the outline is actually stage two. Stage one is really just accumulating bits and thoughts, images and dialog for awhile first. Sometimes a week, sometimes longer. Just writing down everything that comes to mind. Then the outlining process is this huge, ridiculous sorting phase where I try to put it in a coherent timeline, fill in the gaps and give myself something to work from. I don't know that I could sustain a long plot without it.

Which is all to say "I DO NOT COMPREHEND YOUR BRAIN, BUT I LOVE IT."

Enjoy Twilight tonight. I think I will probably get dragged to it sometime next week. I can't decide if I'm looking forward to it or not, but I think it will be a solid movie.

Hugs!
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 08:03pm on 22/11/2008
real food IS good. Which I remembered when I sat down to reply, so I went and got makings for french toast *g*

My trouble is once I actually think something through, or even worse, write it down, my brain finishes with it, and there is no way to write the story. It's kind of like a dinner party. If I plan a big menu and lay out all the ingredients and follow a recipe and taste as I go along to make sure the flavors work and it all fits together, by the time I'm serving it up, I don't want any of it anymore. Whereas if I just open the cupboards and throw things together, I eat the whole thing.

When I think of a piece of dialogue or an image, I have to write it down or it just plays on an endless loop over and over. Sometimes I can get a whole paragraph to loop, but I don't think more than that. I can't imagine being able to write down one line and then come to the point that it fits in later.

All of which is to say, "I DO NOT COMPREHEND YOUR BRAIN EITHER, BUT I LOVE IT TOO!"

*smishes*
 
posted by [identity profile] dreamlittleyo.livejournal.com at 09:09pm on 22/11/2008
Sometimes I can get a whole paragraph to loop, but I don't think more than that.
Man, again with the TOTALLY BACKWARDS. My favorite, most vivid scenes are always the ones that get completely stuck in my head on repeat, sometimes for days at a time. I'll just keep replaying until (a) I've got it right (b) I write it down or (c) the fascination finally plays itself out. Sometimes I lose bits if I don't write it down soon enough.

I mean, that's not how the majority of my writing happens (probably less than half of it, in fact), but it's definitely how my favorite writing happens Vertiginous went that way. Random bits of this Jo/John thing have been, and a WHOLE LOT of chunks of Res Gestae came about that way. It's... I wish I could figure out how to harness it, because it's definitely the most satisfaction I ever get from writing.

CRAZINESS.
 
posted by [identity profile] jadesfire.livejournal.com at 06:39pm on 22/11/2008
I'm so not qualified to say anything about Twilight, so I wanted to pick up on the writing thing ;)

I'm also NOT a planner. Although we have completely different approaches to writing (I'm visual all the way), I'm just the same when it comes to plot, and one of my biggest problems is usually working out where to start. If I start the story in the wrong place, it just won't work or, as you say, it takes forever to get to the story I *want* to write. Sadly, I lack your perseverance and normally end up with 8 failed drafts rather than 15k of extra words ;) I like the idea that the characters are allergic to their futures. That makes a lot of sense - to me, at least - and I always think that if they know what's going to happen, they sort of get bored and wander off because. Well. What's the point of going there if they already know what's going to happen.

I can't even try to help you on the second one, since, well. That's how I write - I usually watch the story unfold through a character's eyes. So I get the emotional reaction from what the character is *seeing*, how the visual impacts on him/her. One of the best things about working with my beta Z is that she forces me to put those reactions in much more strongly that I would automatically - like you learning to put physical details in for those of us who like the pictures ;) It sounds like you have a plan to deal with that, though. Maybe he could close his eyes? ;) [/helpful]

Hope you find your way through the stories - learning is always good, even if it can be frustrating as well! :)
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 07:40pm on 22/11/2008
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to have my POV character close his eyes, and I have a feeling that might just work. *draws sparkly hearts all over you*

I am so glad that you agree on the allergic to their futures thing. It's lovely to know one isn't alone with one's peculiar notions :D

I've never really thought about knowing where to start. I don't feel like I have any kind of choice. I do, very occasionally, find I have to go and write another scene before the first one, but since most of the things I write tend into the 1-8k words category, they rarely cover much time.

oooh, I love hearing how other people do their thing!


 
posted by [identity profile] gregoria44.livejournal.com at 06:53pm on 22/11/2008
Hope Twilight doesn't afflict you in the same way the idea of it seems to be afflicting the rest of my flist!! Surely Robert Pattinson isn't that bad?! Do tell me later.

Very interested in your writing thing, there. The images I have of what is happening in my stories are very strong, and sometimes I take a step back from the writing and realise that I've got none of it across. I end up going back over things to make sure that anyone reading it will 'see' exactly what I need them to.

Being another non-planner, I was delighted to read an interview in the shop's trade mag with a published author who said he can't plan entire novels either. I'd even heard of him, though I forget his name now!

Now here's a question: do you find yourself putting more into planning for your own original fics? I find that fandom characters go their own sweet way in my stories, but I have to push original characters around a little more. Which isn't to say that they don't 'talk' to me the same way when I empty my head and let them push me around.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 07:44pm on 22/11/2008
I expect, since I have no expectations and know NOTHING about it except that it has vampires, I shan't be too afflicted. I don't even have a clue who Robert Pattinson is. Actor? Director? Writer?

I don't plan any fics. Which is why I'm finding this novel-writing lark difficult. I just keep writing scenes, many of them back story that I don't know will ever make it into a finished product, and I have no idea what will happen. Sometimes something happens and I don't get why, and I dont' know that it's working that well, and then I'll write another scene and it suddenly becomes clear why A said or did something in the first part I wrote. It's very odd.

Sometimes I will push a little, but on the level of saying to Susan, "Fight with Charles now," and waiting to see what she finds to fight about.
 
posted by [identity profile] gregoria44.livejournal.com at 01:03am on 23/11/2008
Robert Pattinson is the guy I posted a pic of in my journal this a.m. - the one that the Boy made me confuse with ham!

He plays Edward in the film, if that's any help.

(You may find yourself distracted by his monobrow.)
 
posted by [identity profile] sinnerforhire.livejournal.com at 06:54pm on 22/11/2008
I love hearing about other people's creative process. I find it fascinating how we can all arrive at the same basic place despite coming from so many different starting points.

Generally, I write wholly in language. Which is to say that I don't have any kind of picture in my head of what's going on, I don't see scenes like a movie, the whole 'picture' is built of words.

I've never really seen "pictures in my head" that weren't dreams, and as a child I never understood why my teachers would tell me to picture things, because I really couldn't. There are times, though, when I need to write something very visual and I will have to sketch out or model what I'm thinking in order to get it down.

When I write, I start with a sentence in my head and go from there.

I usually start with a one-sentence summary and a first line for shorter fics. I've found that anything over 10k requires at least some kind of outline. I tried the 1+1 method for an elaborate AU I wrote for Julnowrimo/Augnowrimo and it was a trainwreck. Sometimes the summary will let me know how it ends, sometimes it doesn't. As short as 90 To Nothing (http://community.livejournal.com/sn_fic/1885949.html) is, I didn't have the end in mind when I started it. I just had the image of the two girls kissing and then the sort-of-Wincestness kind of jumped me halfway through.

I often feel like nothing more than a recording secretary for my characters.

I feel like this with the fic I'm working on now. Words just keep spilling forth from my fingers with no effort at all and I'm just like, "Dude, this is awesome!" I almost forgot to leave work on time, I was so in the zone with this thing. I had 2k+ words done on it, and then this image just popped into my head and I knew I had to restart it. I'm up to 4k now in just three days, which is really fast for me.

 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 07:54pm on 22/11/2008
I love when the words come tumbling out like that. Ice skating instead of tromping through mud.

I've never really seen "pictures in my head" that weren't dreams, and as a child I never understood why my teachers would tell me to picture things, because I really couldn't. There are times, though, when I need to write something very visual and I will have to sketch out or model what I'm thinking in order to get it down.

I am just the same way. I have almost no visual memory at all. Which is why I find it strange that I do have a fairly good sense of direction. Though only in RL, and like with video games I can never get back to someplace without following along on the map.

When I write places I have to make my characters live in a house I've been in, and I make frequent use of google's satellite view feature and street view feature, of real estate pages, and similar. Even with the houses I have been in thing, I can't picture the rooms, I just know where they are in the house and have information, like 'wood floors' or 'sink under a window' that I can then manipulate for my purpose. I often have to get up and physically act things out with my body if I want a character to be doing something more complicated than walking or typing, because I can't picture whether or not people do whatever it is. Or I'll find video of it, or whatever.

I think I would have found it very hard to write fiction in the time before the internet.

*opens 90 To Nothing to read*
 
posted by [identity profile] sinnerforhire.livejournal.com at 10:31pm on 22/11/2008
I make frequent use of google's satellite view feature and street view feature, of real estate pages, and similar

Oh, me too. I once drove a 100-mile round trip to see a town I was writing about. I took pictures of the neighborhoods, too.

I think I would have found it very hard to write fiction in the time before the internet.

Oh man, the amount of times I've Mapquested driving distances/times, sunrise/sunset times, and other completely random things...I don't know what I'd do without the Internet.
 
posted by [identity profile] fleshflutter.livejournal.com at 06:59pm on 22/11/2008
I find your method of writing absolutely intriguing and every so often I try to make myself write like that and I get a few sentences and the next thing I know I have a bulletpointed list of Things That Need To Happen and Things That Need To Be Said. I find it amazing that you can write that way and that it works so damn well for you. <333
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 07:17pm on 22/11/2008
I think because I started out writing this way, if I make a list, even mental, of things that need to happen, my brain thinks I've already written it and won't write it again. Sometimes I would love to be able to do it your way, because I think it would be really useful for things like a novel. But hopefully I'm kind of learning how to do that with this epic I'm doing. And if there weren't a deadline I think I could maybe actually get there all in one go. It is really fascinating to me that people can plan and that it works out. It's what makes you be able to do something like the spyverse though, so I am VERY happy that it does work.
sylvanwitch: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] sylvanwitch at 08:26pm on 22/11/2008
Wow, this was a really neat entry. I mean, all your entries are neat, but this was *really* neat because I LOVE hearing other writers talk about how they write. My experiences are so vastly different from yours that it's almost like you're on another writing continent, seriously. For example, though I don't usually outline, for this year's NaNo project, I wrote an extensive outline ahead of time, and man, have I been writing like a madwoman. Whoo.

But ordinarily, what kicks my stories off is an image, whether it comes on its own or is inspired by a prompt. And then I think about the image for awhile, and slowly other images join it until I have an atmosphere, until I'm feeling the mood of the story. After that, the what and where and how more or less comes, always in order of where it needs to be, I guess. It's organic, as you say, in that the characters and actions are building themselves to fit the mood that the image sparked. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, I can entirely empathize with your situation on both stories. For me, the same moment came when I was given a prompt that brought NO usable (which is to say acceptable to the prompter) images. Oy. And some of my most formative writing came from that experience. It was hard, and I didn't always like it--I angsted, in fact, and bitched a lot to myself--but when it was done, though I was the most uncertain I'd ever been about any story, the reviews were pretty astonishing.

So I wish you lots and lots of astonishing reviews for both of these stories that you're describing here. And feel free to talk shop any time. I love it! :-) *hugs*
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 08:37pm on 22/11/2008
I love hearing how other writers craft as well, so I figured there would be at least a few of you on my flist *g*

I would be so interested to have images for things. but for me it's always a sentence that a prompt will give me. I guess I have to have my characters THINK about a thing, rather than do it. Which is interesting from a psychological standpoint I think.

I, too, hope that this story giving me grief at the moment turns out ok. I'm actually really pleased with the first one, though it didn't get to my planned bit, it did what the prompter wanted (i hope she'll agree) so that's what's important *g*

 
posted by [identity profile] victorian-tweed.livejournal.com at 12:53pm on 23/11/2008
Fascinating to read about your writing process, River. (And your passion for words shines through the description!)

eeeeep that dream! (Mind you, the same can be said about 90% of mine as well.)
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 06:41pm on 23/11/2008
My subconscious likes to scar me, I'm convinced.

And yay! I'm glad it's interesting. I am always fascinated by how different people's writing processes are.

 
posted by [identity profile] talia-sparkle.livejournal.com at 06:26pm on 23/11/2008
Ditto Tweed. I think the way you just write about writing is beautiful. It's so interesting to see inside a creative mind like that.

And I think I now have the image of the two-headed drag queen stuck in my head too. And it's not nice! O_O
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 06:43pm on 23/11/2008
Thank you :D

and URGH. The two-headed drag queen is terrifying. He was done up like a blow-up sex doll, with the big lips and blond wigs. and the bottom head was all sideways out of his ribs. I can STILL see it even the next day. :(

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