I've finally finished all three Hunger Games books, and never in my life have I been more aware of the extent to which we read things through the lens of our own experience. I haven't exactly been rolling around in posts about the books or the movies, as I wanted to avoid spoilers, but I've seen enough to know that what a lot of people are talking about are not themes that jumped out at me at all. I felt like all three books were essentially about one thing.
This entire series seems to me to be about how depressing, frustrating, infuriating, terrifying, and hopeless seeming it is to be female in a patriarchal society. I see talk of ship wars, the "Peeniss" (and seriously???) shippers versus those who are team Gale, like this is just another Twilight scenario with team Jacob and team Edward. But unlike Bela, who is all about the boys, Katniss is MARKEDLY uninterested. Over and over and over she talks about how she never wants to get married. How she sees Gale and Peeta as friends and nothing more. She is scared before she meets Cinna that he plans to send her out in public naked. She is uncomfortable with her prep team touching her, and repeatedly disassociates when they do, especially in the run-up to the first games, going somewhere else in her head so she doesn't have to deal with what they're doing to her. She seems very much like someone who either has suffered a prior sexual abuse (something there is no other evidence of beyond her reaction to events), who is sexually interested only in other women, or who is not sexually interested at all for whatever reason.
Katniss is an amazing girl. She hunts with great prowess, providing for her family. She knows her strengths, she knows her own mind, she's carved out a strong place for herself in her society. She has a comfortable relationship with her best friend. Obviously, this all has to be taken away from her. Suzanne Collins for sure takes to heart that one must trap her protagonist up a tree and then throw rocks at her. Sometimes literally. But she doesn't just threaten her life and her family and her home. Katniss is also constantly plagued by the attentions of the boys in her life.
As she gets drawn deeper and deeper into the charade of her 'lovers' relationship with Peeta, she has to deal with constant jealousy from both him and Gale. Neither of them find it even REMOTELY comprehensible that she could fail to be in love with him unless she is in love with the other. She's told over and over by everyone around her that she must choose, and her choice is always one or the other of them. That she could just choose herself is never suggested.
She is also plagued by the requirement to be beautiful. Her skills aren't completely discounted, but again and again she is waxed, polished, made up, and changed in order to be worthy. She is repeatedly distressed by this, but it never really seems to go anywhere as a theme, beyond one point where everyone realizes that it's better in the middle of a war if she looks more natural. I hoped that there might be some resolution of this at the end, but I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that Katniss was literally stripped of her skin and declared insane and then exiled. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I wanted something else.
I thought we were going to at least get Katniss being allowed to be her independent self at the end, with her house and her friends and her hunting again, and even with music back in her life. But LO. It was not to be. I cannot tell you how much it depressed me that after everything that happened to her, she ended up married with children--something she NEVER WANTED. I realize that she lived in a whole new world without hunger games, and that she was sixteen when she didn't want any of this at the start, but it just smacked so much of how women are constantly being told that they'll change their minds when they meet the right person. That they'll want to be wives and mothers. Of course they will! alskjfdhlsdf NOT EVERYONE.
Katniss says that she knows this would have happened anyway. That she would have ended up with Peeta because Gale was wrong for her. In the end she, too, buys into the idea that those two were her only choices. That she never had the choice to be on her own. And then when she says that it took, "five, ten, fifteen years for me to agree. But Peeta wanted them so badly." about having children, it gave me chills. Being pregnant is a horror to her. She does love her kids, and holding her first child in her arms brings her comfort from the horror of her pregnancy, but it still seems like yet another terrible thing that happens to her in a long line of terrible things throughout her life. And this is the happiest ending she can be given.
I would love to know if Suzanne Collins always planned for her to end up with Peeta at the end, or if that was something suggested by her publishers to please the reading public. If in an ironic twist, what she was trying to write a commentary on with the love strategy that started in the first games became something that she ended up having to actually do for real.
Either way, it creeped me the hell out.
Now I'm not saying that there aren't themes of racism and classism and war and all kinds of other things going on here. Or that there isn't a lot of world building and plotting. But honestly, none of that made much of an impression on me, because I was so constantly uncomfortable with how uncomfortable Katniss was trying to be herself in a world that primarily valued her for her role as a female. Someone to be used, changed, molded, to fit into the lives of the people around her as required for their goals and egos. It was fucking depressing.
That sense of menace was largely taken out of the movie. Katniss' fear was almost absent. It made for a hugely different story. One that is a lot more media friendly, and one that doesn't jar so much with the messages that girls are being given every day about how they should fit in to the society we live in. I'm sure I will want to see the others as they come out, but mostly to see where they take them.
Your mileage may vary, of course. The whole point of this is that my life experiences have so very thoroughly impacted my interpretation of this series. But these thoughts have been plaguing me since I started listening to the first book, and I wanted to get them out.
This entire series seems to me to be about how depressing, frustrating, infuriating, terrifying, and hopeless seeming it is to be female in a patriarchal society. I see talk of ship wars, the "Peeniss" (and seriously???) shippers versus those who are team Gale, like this is just another Twilight scenario with team Jacob and team Edward. But unlike Bela, who is all about the boys, Katniss is MARKEDLY uninterested. Over and over and over she talks about how she never wants to get married. How she sees Gale and Peeta as friends and nothing more. She is scared before she meets Cinna that he plans to send her out in public naked. She is uncomfortable with her prep team touching her, and repeatedly disassociates when they do, especially in the run-up to the first games, going somewhere else in her head so she doesn't have to deal with what they're doing to her. She seems very much like someone who either has suffered a prior sexual abuse (something there is no other evidence of beyond her reaction to events), who is sexually interested only in other women, or who is not sexually interested at all for whatever reason.
Katniss is an amazing girl. She hunts with great prowess, providing for her family. She knows her strengths, she knows her own mind, she's carved out a strong place for herself in her society. She has a comfortable relationship with her best friend. Obviously, this all has to be taken away from her. Suzanne Collins for sure takes to heart that one must trap her protagonist up a tree and then throw rocks at her. Sometimes literally. But she doesn't just threaten her life and her family and her home. Katniss is also constantly plagued by the attentions of the boys in her life.
As she gets drawn deeper and deeper into the charade of her 'lovers' relationship with Peeta, she has to deal with constant jealousy from both him and Gale. Neither of them find it even REMOTELY comprehensible that she could fail to be in love with him unless she is in love with the other. She's told over and over by everyone around her that she must choose, and her choice is always one or the other of them. That she could just choose herself is never suggested.
She is also plagued by the requirement to be beautiful. Her skills aren't completely discounted, but again and again she is waxed, polished, made up, and changed in order to be worthy. She is repeatedly distressed by this, but it never really seems to go anywhere as a theme, beyond one point where everyone realizes that it's better in the middle of a war if she looks more natural. I hoped that there might be some resolution of this at the end, but I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that Katniss was literally stripped of her skin and declared insane and then exiled. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I wanted something else.
I thought we were going to at least get Katniss being allowed to be her independent self at the end, with her house and her friends and her hunting again, and even with music back in her life. But LO. It was not to be. I cannot tell you how much it depressed me that after everything that happened to her, she ended up married with children--something she NEVER WANTED. I realize that she lived in a whole new world without hunger games, and that she was sixteen when she didn't want any of this at the start, but it just smacked so much of how women are constantly being told that they'll change their minds when they meet the right person. That they'll want to be wives and mothers. Of course they will! alskjfdhlsdf NOT EVERYONE.
Katniss says that she knows this would have happened anyway. That she would have ended up with Peeta because Gale was wrong for her. In the end she, too, buys into the idea that those two were her only choices. That she never had the choice to be on her own. And then when she says that it took, "five, ten, fifteen years for me to agree. But Peeta wanted them so badly." about having children, it gave me chills. Being pregnant is a horror to her. She does love her kids, and holding her first child in her arms brings her comfort from the horror of her pregnancy, but it still seems like yet another terrible thing that happens to her in a long line of terrible things throughout her life. And this is the happiest ending she can be given.
I would love to know if Suzanne Collins always planned for her to end up with Peeta at the end, or if that was something suggested by her publishers to please the reading public. If in an ironic twist, what she was trying to write a commentary on with the love strategy that started in the first games became something that she ended up having to actually do for real.
Either way, it creeped me the hell out.
Now I'm not saying that there aren't themes of racism and classism and war and all kinds of other things going on here. Or that there isn't a lot of world building and plotting. But honestly, none of that made much of an impression on me, because I was so constantly uncomfortable with how uncomfortable Katniss was trying to be herself in a world that primarily valued her for her role as a female. Someone to be used, changed, molded, to fit into the lives of the people around her as required for their goals and egos. It was fucking depressing.
That sense of menace was largely taken out of the movie. Katniss' fear was almost absent. It made for a hugely different story. One that is a lot more media friendly, and one that doesn't jar so much with the messages that girls are being given every day about how they should fit in to the society we live in. I'm sure I will want to see the others as they come out, but mostly to see where they take them.
Your mileage may vary, of course. The whole point of this is that my life experiences have so very thoroughly impacted my interpretation of this series. But these thoughts have been plaguing me since I started listening to the first book, and I wanted to get them out.
(no subject)
But yes. THIS. Please let everyone ever see this post. It's a terrific essay, very well thought out, and worth pursuing further.
(no subject)
Anyway. What I am trying to say is that I'm glad this makes sense, despite being mostly stream of conscience, and that I'm not alone :)
(no subject)
omgyesthisthankyou >_<
i haven't read the books yet but, wow, i'm glad i read your post before doing so. from the blurbs i read about them, i was expecting it to go a different direction in the end and i was setting myself up for disappointment. now i know what to expect when i go in...
(no subject)
(no subject)
I hadn't consciously noticed Katniss' disassociation during the makeover bits, but as soon as I read your thoughts on it, it clicked. (I'm fortunate to never have learned to recognise those signs.) I also can't agree hard enough about the frustration of seeing Katniss being railroaded into making a choice between the boys.
HOWEVER. This is how I interpreted the way it all wrapped up: it's meant to be fucking depressing. We're supposed to realise that Katniss made an awful compromise instead of doing what she wanted (running away to live in the woods), because the story wasn't meant to have a satisfying ending. That's the message; a warning, if you like, that sometimes you can win despite impossible odds, be triumphant, and afterward things are still kind of shit. Which is a lon-winded way of saying it's a dystopia and there was never going to be the ideal happy ending for Katniss, but at the very least, kids aren't killing each other anymore.
That's my take, anyway. Oh, and I didn't like Gale OR Peeta. I thought Katniss had more spark with Haymitch or the mayor's daughter, honestly.
(no subject)
(no subject)
I thought the overall message of the books were 'humans are shit, and we're never going to escape the endless cycle of violence', which was pretty depressing on its own, and then Katniss's personal ending was just as bleak, for all I liked Peeta. I was kinda hoping she would just go 'actually, I just want to be friends', but I suppose the idea of someone not wanting to be shoehorned into domestic bliss is just too radical.
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
I didn't like Gale that much... I thought she totally carried Peeta, but I can also accept that she eventually let Peeta get under her armor, because she has a weakness for the people she takes care of.
I think the decision to have or not have children is huge, and it's one that we as feminists need to continue to work over ... and I think to see clearly we need to try to avoid falling into camps of kids vs no kids. I have very complicated thoughts but no more time to say them in. Thanks for sharing your reaction!
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
I love your brain, btw. :)
(no subject)
I think I feel about it more that ... it's a book about war and tyranny and control that isn't really supposed to feel particularly gendered, but it does because it was written by a contemporary female author who is entrenched in our very gendered society and the way we do things. Which may be why those themes you mentioned weren't resolved.
About the kids, though, I really seem like that's a little harsh. I haven't read Mockingjay in a while, so I might be misremembering, but I didn't think she was horrified by the idea of pregnancy. I thought it was kind of important that she felt like she could bring children into this world (not that she should be required to in any way) but she really specifically said in the beginning that she wouldn't have children because she knew they would have to take part in the Reaping. I guess I felt like it was more that it took her a long time to let go of that mindset, rather than that she was bowing to what Peeta wanted. Because to me that was never something she did.
As to the whole Team Peeta/Team Gale thing ... I actually read a really good blog post the other day (which, oops, I can't find now. I'll see if I can turn it up.) about why we shouldn't be mad at the love triangle, romantic plotline, etc. It pointed out that really most YA books do have romantic plotlines, because that's something teenagers can relate to. It used MY favorite books from middle school as an example (Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness Quartet). Yes, those books had a love triangle situation too, but unlike Twilight, and like the Hunger Games, there was so much more to them, and Alanna and Katniss are both a completely different class of female protagonist than Bella Swan. I dunno, I thought that was a really good point. Having a romantic plotline doesn't negate the rest of the story, and it provides a point of entry for young readers.
Um ... that was more than two cents. Right. Well, good post! Thought provoking! ♥ :-D?
(no subject)
That's the whole thing, though. Whether a person's own experiences zero in on racism, classism, war, or like you, sexism, that sentence applies! It's what the stories are about, right? I think! How our current society molds and presses you into spaces that aren't natural to fit. How that destroys and numbs you after time. It's a psychological horror series!
I'm not sure, specifically, what you are upset about. Is it that people are more greatly responding to the literature by shipping rather than exploring the deeper themes? Or is it that you are frustrated because you feel like people don't GET IT or because you think they DO get it and just don't care? Or that people aren't talking more about the sexism, in general?
Because I guess I feel frustrated that it seems like people don't get the message of the stories (for example, cheering in the theater when one of the "mean" kids is killed) but I don't think there is anything wrong with shipping romances that are not perfectly healthy. Like, I would never have been able to read Sam/Dean or any number of fandom ships if that were true! What I enjoy in real life obvs does not equal what I enjoy in fiction. I also think looking to "make it better" after reading a disturbing piece of fiction is something a lot of people might be drawn to do as a symptom of the sickness society pushes, to escape and numb and settle ourselves down. We ship for tons of reasons and I know, personally, I ship as a defense mechanism sometimes.
My take on Katniss was similar to yours. I did feel like she played the boys, though, saying one thing and then doing another. Which was no doubt a result of the pressure she was under, as you noted, being a female in a patriarchal society. I guess I just felt like everybody was totally fucked? Finnick's body was literally owned by the Capitol, not long after his "freedom" he was dead. Peeta's entire character was built on love and loyalty and the Capitol took that from him. He fought for it back and was left with, basically, a crumb. Like he never really got to be LOVED. Just settled for what felt the closet to real. Which! I think is what we are all doing right now. Settling and numbing and making the best with the shit society has built for us. It's INFURIATING. But what am I doing to change things? Not much, really! Watching some TV shows and reading some YA novels, yep!! Escaping the crap I hate via fictional characters. And that's what makes it so super sad. We take these life experiences and turn them into scars and then we sit there dealing with them and dealing with them and it's just fucking depressing! So. IDK. I felt like the books were relatively accurate in portraying that, not just for Katniss, but for EVERYONE.
I don't even know what I am rambling on about at this point, haha! I agree with parts of what you said, but I think it unfair to dismiss characters like Peeta as strictly part of the problem and not pawns in a similar way to Katniss. I think Peeta's story arc is a very important one. As she fought for what she thought right with fire, he fought with love. In the end, I think those both got taken away. They both settled. AND FINNICK IS DEAD. SO WE ALL LOSE, OKAY. WE ALL LOSE!!! LOLOLOLOL. (I really did laugh out loud then. Like a creep!)
(no subject)
As an aside, another thing that bugged me about the movie was that they had many scenes on the train and in the city where food was displayed or they were having meals, but nothing that showed how Katniss devoured everything she saw because she was starving. Perhaps because they thought it would make her a less attractive character?
(no subject)
(no subject)
There was not supposed to be a romance at all. She took the THG manuscript to her editor and the editor loved it but said 1) it seemed a lot like "that Japanese film" [Battle Royale] and that Katniss needed a love interest or it would not sell in light of all the paranormal romances that were beginning to fly off the shelves (and the billion in production at that time). From one interview that Collins did during THG's release (and everyone is looking for it to cite at this point), she said that Peeta and Katniss were to develop a strong friendship and comraderie that offended Snow and the Capitol because it showed two classes from the same district working together and Gale was originally her cousin, who was friends with Peeta and actually vouched for him.
The above scenario sounds a billion times more interesting to me, but YA is all about the trilogy with the ubiquitous love triangle even where it makes zero sense (here, the Delirium trilogy). Race, class and gender converged for me in the trilogy as these things often do for me so I don't think it can be understated that being of the extremely poor class of the poorest district as well as resembling the "coal-mining class" can be extracted from her gender and need to feel that her body is her own. Her identification with the women of her district who performed sex work for the head peacekeeper seemed to be her strongest female identification with other women (or not girls she felt protective of) and that spoke volumes to me.
That sense of menace was largely taken out of the movie. Katniss' fear was almost absent. It made for a hugely different story. One that is a lot more media friendly, and one that doesn't jar so much with the messages that girls are being given every day about how they should fit in to the society we live in. I'm sure I will want to see the others as they come out, but mostly to see where they take them.
There was an article published the week the movie opened, albeit I am linkless again, that compared the book and the movie and ultimately concluded that the movie takes an apolitical slant in order to please the largest crowds.
(no subject)
This is very interesting, I hadn't heard about this, though it wouldn't surprise me. No one can come up with links for it? That's a shame, the idea opens the books up to some delicious meta on top of meta, no? Collins bound by needing to please an audience, uses romance the same way Katniss does and then clips her agency, leaving her to the normalize fate of women everywhere. You wonder then how much of that gender commentary present in the books was added in after Collins got that pressure. Ah, I wish Collins wasn't so adverse to interviews.
I actually think the triangle, however skewed and lopsided as it is, was a worthwhile inclusion though, as it's a gateway for teens to care about the issues surrounding the books. Your message, commentary, it's only as influential as the number of people it reaches. If you've got a good one, chocked full of thematics as this one did, you might as well make it mass-marketable. In some cases that could dilute the message but, idk, I think Collins worked hard to make it stronger. Turning a triangle into a political allegory is just about the best function I've ever seen for a triangle, I kinda love it for that alone.
(no subject)
But honestly, none of that made much of an impression on me, because I was so constantly uncomfortable with how uncomfortable Katniss was trying to be herself in a world that primarily valued her for her role as a female. Someone to be used, changed, molded, to fit into the lives of the people around her as required for their goals and egos. It was fucking depressing.
This is a very important part of the books that I'm afraid gets buried by all the other thematic threads going on. I was aware of it while reading, but I admit I got so wrapped up in the political meta after finishing, I've kinda lost track of that thoroughline myself. So thanks for taking the time to write this up. It's interesting how them dropping this in the movie changed the story so much, I hadn't thought of it like that. I definitely got the sense that they had Katniss much stronger and more unflappable than in the books, and originally I kinda liked it, but you're right, the fear didn't come across the same. And that does neutralize the gender issues. I do think this line might be played more in the subsequent movie, as it was stronger in CF and MJ than the first book. They largely cut the prep team out of this one, but one would imagine they'll have a larger presence later. But I guess that's up to whoever gets the reins.
I have a whole host of thoughts about Collins ending MJ like she did that I'm, um, still trying to sort through. But I'd bet it was absolutely intentional of her to end them like she did. Because to me, them being fucking depressing was kinda her whole point. I love the books precisely because of that. The line you're talking about here, dovetails at the end of MJ into the war, political, and social commentary threads. Her country fails her, breaks her, in more ways than one, and then chews her out, deposits her in her ashen wasteland of a home when they're done with her. The choice of herself is erased, because her own life is essentially destroyed. Peeta and rebuilding the family her nation destroyed, acts as a solace because those atrocities cause her to need that solace. Fans make it out to be a happier ending than what Collins wrote, for their own solace (which ha, I understand, re:depressing). But the nonresolution bleakness, that society is simply on this neverending carousel, always felt like that was Collins' whole point. And that includes societal gender issues.
(no subject)
If you haven't read it already, you might want to check out Kristin Cashore's Graceling. Similar character dynamics, but a different journey.
(no subject)
I have a pet love for Katniss/Johanna, but that was really my crazy shipper speaking. In terms of what could have been canon, I too wanted her to run off into the woods alone. She was used by so many people in so many ways, I really wanted her to finally tell them all to go fuck themselves and escape.
(no subject)
(no subject)
I have to admit that the things you mention in this post did pass my mind, but I too, like most of the readers, paid more attention to the oppression of the political system in Panem. It did bother me though to no ends how much everyone expected Katniss to be feminine and pretty when she didn't feel that way, when she didn't need to feel that way.
In anay case...I like the Peeta/Katniss pairing. I think it works well and I think that a big part of it makes a lot of sense when you think about what they went through. When Katniss realised that Peeta loved her for real she removed herself as best as she could from his life. And Peeta didn't pressure her in any way. He did offer to be her friend, something Katniss herself hadn't even thought. I admit that his interest in her was borderline obsession (or pathetic puppy love, whichever you prefer) but he never asked her to choose between him and Gale. He assumed that she wanted Gale because let's face it, he was a 16-17 year-old boy, he couldn't see any other option and Katniss was never one to be very in touch with her feelings. Also, let's not forget that in the third book, with the hijacking, some part of him always wanted to hurt her even when he was fighting this part of his self.
And besides, Katniss does admit she needs him, more than she could need anybody because he's the only one who can understand what she's going through (Haymitch with his drinking and bad manners doesn't count). And she does experience the first feelings of sexual want with him. She chooses to kiss him and acknowledges that if there was time and space, she'd want more.
And quite honestly I don't see how there could've been a different ending. Granted it was depressing, but it was the lesser of two evils, the only other option for Katniss at that point was to end up like Haymitch; drunk, alone and possibly half-mad. She needed Peeta to help her go on as much as Peeta needed her. It's not the healthiest of relationships and it's definitely not flowery and rainbow-sparkling they lived happily ever after blah, blah blah. But I believe that Katniss grew to be thankful for their kids because like Peeta, they gave her hope, that life can go on and people can learn to be happy again no matter how much it hurt to reach that point. If she hadn't stayed with Peeta, if she hadn't have kids, she would continue to live in a world where her sister's death and every horror that happened to her governed over her life.
(no subject)
And I just want to comment on the "teenagers relate most to romantic plotlines" assumption. It makes me so uncomfortable. I don't deny that both versions of the Hunger Games (the current one and the one we'll never read where Gale is her cousin and Peeta is a close friend) are interesting and have great potential.
But assuming that romantic stories are the only way to get teenagers interested makes me feel nauseated, seriously. Life is more than finding your "one true love" and I wish that's something I could've been exposed to as a teenager and even as an adult.