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posted by [personal profile] rivers_bend at 07:48am on 23/09/2008 under
I've seen a few warnings lately about so-and-so topping or bottoming and read a few comments about how someone won't read a fic if one or the other character is the top or the bottom, and it's made me curious.

So the idea is you pick your favourite three (or a random selection of three) OTPs (and yes, I understand that the O stands for one *g*), and use them for the poll. If you only have one or two, just answer one or two sections.

I encourage conversation in comments, because I'm sure the questions don't cover all people might have to say on the subject.

eta because I guess it wasn't clear: ANY PAIRING, ANY FANDOM AT ALL, even ones I've never heard of, it's all good.


[Poll #1265499]
There are 105 comments over 2 pages. (Reply.)
1 2
 
posted by [identity profile] thehighwaywoman.livejournal.com at 02:59pm on 23/09/2008
Yeah, this hiatus thing is workin' out for me real well. *facepalm* But how can I stay away from the pretty?
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:02pm on 23/09/2008
hiatus is just another word for TORTURE. Moving is stressful enough without torturing yourself too. *nods*

*smishes*

I love that we have the same ideas about Sam/Dean and the Js, only with different ones as first and second question options *g*

LJ breaks are good for you.
 
posted by [identity profile] tattooedraven.livejournal.com at 03:15pm on 23/09/2008
I know it's not Supernatural but you asked! :D
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:31pm on 23/09/2008
any fandom, any pairing! I'm all good! *g*

Much more interested in if people are rigidly top/bottom about pairings or if they are more for switching. With whoever floats your boat.
 
posted by [identity profile] gaffsie.livejournal.com at 03:18pm on 23/09/2008
IM IN UR LJ, VOTING FOR OTPS YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:31pm on 23/09/2008
I care about ALL OTPs! love = love!

*hugs*
 
posted by [identity profile] aynslee.livejournal.com at 03:18pm on 23/09/2008
LOL, Wendy has a good point about only having one OTP. Choosing between Sam/Dean and J2 is just too hard though. I picked Sam and Dean as #1 because I feel like I "know" them, which is pretty much impossible with J2, for me.

Topping and bottoming seem pretty fluid for both pairs though, although I think there might be an overall pattern, but not something that's always one way.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:34pm on 23/09/2008
exactly. I know that technically it's ONE, but I have one in different fandoms. J2 is my RPS otp, and I don't like Jeff getting in the way, but that has nothing to do with my love for Sam/Dean and my reluctance to see, say, Alec getting in there. (even though it's SO PRETTY) So yes. I couldn't make people have to choose between fandoms if that's not how they roll *g*

ext_4073: (Dean: broken glass)
posted by [identity profile] cormallen.livejournal.com at 03:24pm on 23/09/2008
I picked "none of these options are how I feel" in both of these cases, because it's kind of a combination of "I don't care who tops, bring on the porn" and "I don't care who tops, as long as it fits the story" and "Why in the hell would I care who tops?" I've said it before, and I'll say it again: fandom's need to define "top" and "bottom", especially when it's often in terms of "top forever" and "bottom forever" absolutely baffles me. I just want the guys to do whatever feels good - and if that means they never get to actual dick-in-ass sex, fine by me; some people just aren't all that into it. I think one of my favorite things when it comes to topping/bottoming conventions was the point in Crystal's homework verse when Jensen technically was the one being penetrated - yet he did it in an incredibly toppy way, retaining absolute control of the situation. I realize that mixes D/s into the whole issue, which does complicate matters, but again, sometimes it really seems that people ascribe far too much meaning to things said and done by the characters, as if non-bedroom behavior indicates absolutes of bedroom behavior.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:37pm on 23/09/2008
this is pretty much just how I feel. I do not understand. I also know that IRL there are not-switchy people. I don't understand them, but I know they are out there :)

I also know that most of the guys I know who love being fucked would seem to be the 'toppier' person to those who equate out of bedroom persona with sexual preference.
 
posted by [identity profile] myownghost.livejournal.com at 03:24pm on 23/09/2008
oh, was it only supposed to be SPN? sorry! i'll leave my votes anyway, because it was fun to fill out the poll. :)
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:39pm on 23/09/2008
no, any pairings at all! We have HP, Underworld, Buffy, all sorts. I want it ALL! (and have now edited the post to reflect that) It's just that much of my flist is SPN types *g*
 
posted by [identity profile] fromyourashes.livejournal.com at 03:31pm on 23/09/2008
Hmm. Ok. Um. Jared/Jensen. They're my REAL OTP. But I put in Sam/Dean, and my other shameful favorite pairing for the sake of your poll, lol.

Jared is a top, in my mind, but I love me some aggressive Jensen fics, know what I'm saying? Sometimes, Jensen is just NOT GOING TO TAKE IT UP THE ASS, TONIGHT, GOD DAMMIT, NOW BEND YOUR BIG ASS OVER AND QUIT YOUR BITCHIN'.

Um.

Sam/Dean.

Listen. I'll read whatever. But Dean Winchester just doesn't bottom, unless...uh. Sex Pollen. Or, uh. Well, he's all needy and whiny. Or I'm in the mood for bitch!Dean. Dean Winchester would only ever let Sam top, and that's only once in a blue, blue moon.

Sam/Connor.

I don't wanna talk about it. LMFAO! WHERE IS THE SAM/CONNOR LOVE? Although, really, I'm vaguely aware that they're pretty much the same character. Sorta. And that I might as well want Sam/Sam. But Winchester tops, and Angel's son bottoms, because his father is fuckin' Angelus and his momma is Darla, so it stands to reason that the toppiness of Angel and Darla cancel each other out, and Connor's a bitch.

Um.

Yeahhhhhhhh. Gotta go.


hahah, I typo'd and had to come back.
Edited Date: 2008-09-23 03:34 pm (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] lima-sierra.livejournal.com at 03:39pm on 23/09/2008
I'm with you Dean not bottoming unless it's sam and it's an eclipse or something (like sam turned all eeeevil and power crazy). He's the one that fucks Sam until he stops being all emo whiny bitchface and the only sounds he makes is when he's panting Dean's name. *nods*
 
posted by [identity profile] lima-sierra.livejournal.com at 03:32pm on 23/09/2008
Polls are so much better than obstetrics! how did you do it for so long?! it was hard to decide on tops and bottoms. take dean/sam. evil sam is a top and dean totally takes it, but dean's suvh an alpha male it makes me think that sam would want it from his big bro. and as for the j's, they switch and it's scorching like the sahara in 2000 yrs time. unless there's an ice age. save me from obs and gynae! *g*
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:42pm on 23/09/2008
*clings to you*

I MISS YOU SO FREAKING MUCH, WOMAN!!!! You make me laugh!!!

The babymamaz won't eat you, I promise. It's awesome!

Evil Sam is definitely a top. Though I kind of like the idea of him ordering the legions of hell around and then bending over for his holy consort.

also, WHEN WILL YOU WATCH THE PREMIER?????
 
posted by [identity profile] kryptyd.livejournal.com at 03:46pm on 23/09/2008
I like to see both happening in all my OTPs. I'd like to say that it makes NO difference to me who is err... where, but I must admit I have a bit of fetish when it comes to the super-seme tough guys being bottom. Tee hee!

I do feel bad for the (yes fictional, I know) characters when people want them rigidly in the one role all the time, and won't let them try different things.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 04:29pm on 23/09/2008
Definitely I like the switching it up. except in cases of underage, then I can't stand to see the younger one bottoming. but OTHERWISE. :D

and I agree totally that in many cases I like to see macho guys bottoming.
auroramama: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] auroramama at 03:49pm on 23/09/2008
Where there's a traditional difference in power, I'm more comfortable with the traditionally less powerful character on top. So: lil bro tops big bro, female tops male -- though any good story can change my mind. With Spike and Xander, I like to tilt the balance back and forth.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 04:32pm on 23/09/2008
I do prefer Sam topping Dean for that very reason. Until about mid S2, when I think their power differential balances out more. Oh, and in the case of the Petrellis, where I like Peter topping just fine, but I also totally see him as a demanding little bottom, so he's still 'topping' but taking it.

switching is too much fun though, in most cases.
auroramama: (Default)
posted by [personal profile] auroramama at 03:55pm on 23/09/2008
I still don't know what "alpha male" means in this context. We're not wolves, so the alpha male isn't the mate of the alpha female who prevents other females from breeding (mostly). If it means the person in charge, then the alpha male in human society may be old enough to be infertile, feeble (physically), or impotent. Neither of these is a big turn-on for me. I do have a thing for alpha females, but that's partly because my vague concept thereof is "person who makes sure business gets done."
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 04:36pm on 23/09/2008
I've mostly seen alpha male used in the case of OT3s. like Jared and Jensen fuck and are fucked, but Jeff only fucks.
 
posted by [identity profile] dragojustine.livejournal.com at 04:56pm on 23/09/2008
See, my issue is that top/bottom and dominant/submissive are two totally different things. In fact, in the nomenclature of the kinky world, top/bottom, dominant/submissive, and pitching/catching (for lack of less crude terminology) are THREE totally different things. I really do not care one whit who's pitching or catching. Ever.

But power dynamics I do care about, especially when a power dynamic outside the bedroom gets mixed in to it, and I usually want the person in the traditionally less powerful role to be the dominant one or the aggressor. I really want to see Sam on top when Wincest first starts out, and I NEED him to be on top if he's underage. Which, again, doesn't mean he can't get fucked. Or, similarly, Daniel is going to be on top at least when the thing with Jack is starting.

Sometimes it's not power dynamic, just personality. Cause John Sheppard is SOMG a bottom. *high fives gaffsie*
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 05:05pm on 23/09/2008
oh, yes! I totally agree. And I've way over-simplified for the purposes of this (largely because so much of fanfic seems to be about the wheres of the dick and the ass) and so mostly I think people mean pitching/catching when they think top/bottom, but I also wanted to incorporate the dynamics aspect of it.

I really want to see Sam on top when Wincest first starts out, and I NEED him to be on top if he's underage.

so much yes to this. It's imperative to me. I absolutely cannot read in-charge Dean if Sam's underage (under 16 anyway) except in the case of established AND in the hands of a very few authors. I don't like to see Sam being fucked before he's 17 or so no matter how much he begs or demands, either. Again, except in a verrrry few cases. So it's only in the case of underage where I care who catches/pitches.
 
posted by [identity profile] lila-blue-b.livejournal.com at 05:00pm on 23/09/2008
I rarely read more than one pairing per universe. Sometimes, but not often. So I don't have more than one for Supernatural, although I've read stories that have a side of Bobby/John. So, to explain, Stephen and Jack are from the Master & Commander series, and Ezra and Vin are from the Magnificent Seven tv series, and obviously you know who Sam and Dean are. These are the pairings that I read currently/have read most recently... I usually go on and off pairings, you know? Like I'll drown in one for a while and then move on and maybe come back to a pairing again when I find good stories.

I don't really care who tops, as long as it's written well, and never have. I do have friends who are very particular about it though. They won't even consider reading something unless the characters are in the rolls in which they prefer to see them.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 05:09pm on 23/09/2008
They won't even consider reading something unless the characters are in the rolls in which they prefer to see them.

this is what I have been seeing around, and it totally mystifies me, so I was curious! Not that they shouldn't be particular, i certainly have a billion things I'm particular about, but I wanted to know how many people were feeling like that *nods*

and I'm with you on the mostly one pairing per verse. except bandom, where I have no idea who any of them are, so they can all shag whomever. *g*
 
posted by [identity profile] late-heart.livejournal.com at 05:21pm on 23/09/2008
I'm so limited in my pairings. Waah...

Booth and Hodgins are both tops, and they wrestle it out. But when I'm feeling very schmurpy about it, Booth likes to make Hodgins *think* thathe's allowing him to top as an indicator of love.... make sense?

I'm so stupid.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 05:36pm on 23/09/2008
That doesn't sound stupid at all. It sounds perfectly sensible.

 
posted by [identity profile] havenward.livejournal.com at 06:03pm on 23/09/2008
My answers aren't OTP in the traditional sense... but its the pairings I prefer reading so I figure its just as useful... For the most part I'm a very plot/character driven sort of person, and if its PWP it just needs to be written well and the rest doesn't matter...
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 06:23pm on 23/09/2008
totally just as useful. I tend to use OTP generally to mean preferred pairing rather than one true pairing to the exclusion of all others. largely because I'm lazy and OTP is easier to type *g*
 
posted by [identity profile] rejeneration.livejournal.com at 06:24pm on 23/09/2008
I definitely have the things I like in fic, but if I love the author, I'm reading whatever they hand me, whether it's up my alley or not! =D I think it's _so_ important to go outside your comfort zone. I think it makes people better. And I don't just mean for slashy-porn, either! =D
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 06:36pm on 23/09/2008
Very much agree about the comfort zone thing. Even though it's something I am SO BAD at doing. But fandom has actually made me better about it. And not just for the slashy-porn :D

And yay to preferences. totally. I like to see Sam manhandling Dean, and whether that's him pinning him against the wall and going down on him or doing him over the hood of the impala or demanding to be done hard now, I'm on it. But I'm perfectly happy to read Dean grabbing Sam and having his way with him too. (so long as it's when Sam's over 17 [mostly but some authors carry it off])

 
posted by [identity profile] nu-breed.livejournal.com at 07:18pm on 23/09/2008
I definitely have preferences, and I also think my preferences are in the minority, which may make me want to see them even more, because I am ornery like that *beams*

My personal canon is pretty rigid in terms of my writing, but obviously I will read outside of my preferences for a good story, or a writer I am fond of. Make me believe it, and I will believe it, y'know?
 
posted by [identity profile] runedgirl.livejournal.com at 07:30pm on 23/09/2008
Interesting poll....and you guys, your comment porn has me choking with laughter here. LOL. I think for me it's partly that Dean is the older one, so I'm more comfortable with him bottoming, otherwise the age gets conflated with power and comes too close to a squick. Or is it just that Jensen is so pretty like that? Hmmm.
 
posted by [identity profile] ennui-blue-lite.livejournal.com at 07:43pm on 23/09/2008
Sam/Dean.

Sam's toppier, but I like to mix it up.

Harry/Perry (from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang)

Perry always tops. Always.

Bertie/Jeeves.

ETA: Changed "Dean's toppier" to "Sam's toppier". Sorry, typo!
Jeeves tops. Bertie was born to bottom.
Edited Date: 2008-09-24 03:29 am (UTC)
 
posted by [identity profile] eboniorchid.livejournal.com at 09:21pm on 23/09/2008
For all the people who feel like switching it up is defacto for everyone and are confused by why people have a penchant for forever!top/forever!bottom, I'd be curious to know how their own personal preferences reflect (or don't) their notions of possibilities in fandom. As someone who definitely prefers to top basically all the time, it's not hard at all for me to understand how characters can naturally fall into a forever(mostly)!top/forever(mostly)!bottom situation. When I get "close" to characters, their circumstances and personalities start to build into a mix of canon and personal fanon for me and it's hard for me to see them switching unless I can explain it to myself very early on.

I have to say up front, though, that even though I know that top and dominant do not always coincide as sex/power roles in a relationship, since that is a mix of roles that makes the most immediate sense to me, I tend to mesh them together in fandom. *shrugs* I can only pull them apart when it's done fairly explicitly in the text of a fic and even then it doesn't tend to get me hot in the same way that top-dom/bottom-sub fic situations can.

Jack/Daniel (Stargate SG-1) - In this case, it just really breaks my brain for Jack to bottom except in those rare cases (say, the first time they're trying something) when it's part of his way of protecting Daniel to let Daniel top, but even then, he's still very much in control and would be doing it less because he likes it and more to ease Daniel into what he *really* likes. Hence, my answer of usually A but A can bottom occasionally.

Sam/Dean (Supernatural) - This is one that is difficult for me to explain at times, because I very much come to top!Sam/bottom!Dean because I believe in dominant!Sam/submissive!Dean and not everyone can understand that belief or it's connection to the top/bottom roles. I look at Sam's personality, especially in relation to John, and see a very assertive, even aggressive, guy who is going to get his way, either through persuasion, wits, anger, or ultimatums, etcetera. Sam is NOT submissive to ANYONE. Dean, on the other hand, while he may be generally tough and hypermasculine and rebellious in the playboy-brawler kind of way, with people that he truly cares about he defers to them and really bases most of his self-worth and happiness on *their* happiness. Dean SUBMITS to the will of respected cared-for others, he just doesn't respect or care for a lot of people. Dean is also incredibly protective of Sam and with his submissive tendencies and that immense level of protection, I think he'd have a hard time breaching Sam's body like that, especially early on in their relationship (for underage starts, for example, it's *really* hard for me to believe that a 20yo Dean would deflower 16yo Sam). Opening himself up like that would be an immense and almost sacrificial act of love on his part, which is exactly the kind of thing that he does *all the time*, particularly considering how much he guards his masculinity. If Dean were to top, it would be after a lot of coaxing and reassurance from Sam and would likely be very heavily under Sam's control. Sam has lived his whole life working to be the alpha and Dean is not only okay with being a beta, he's often scared to death of having to be the alpha. Dean doesn't want to lead anyone but himself (if that) and he only does it when it's the best of a bad set of options. Hence, A usually tops, but A can bottom on a rare occasion.

Realistically, though, the other reason why I tend to prefer Dean on the bottom is because I usually find the characterization of bottom!Sam to be really different from any version of Sam that I like. There are a few writers, [livejournal.com profile] albydarned for instance, who can write bottom!Sam's that I believe, but far too often in this fandom it seems like bottom!Sam is made into what I would consider a rather OOC needy, whiny, spoiled brat of a 12yo girl. Now, I'm not saying that doesn't occasionally happen with bottom!Dean, but Dean's overt masculinity seems to lessen the prevalence of that characterization while the fact that Sam's empathetic and not keen to stalk around like a virile man-beast somehow leaves him open to being overly feminized.

... cut in half, more in the next comment ...
 
posted by [identity profile] dragojustine.livejournal.com at 05:26am on 24/09/2008
As someone who definitely prefers to top basically all the time, it's not hard at all for me to understand how characters can naturally fall into a forever(mostly)!top/forever(mostly)!bottom situation...

This whole bit is a fascinating question, which I have absolutely no answers for.

As for the rest- you are so *completely* right about absolutely everything you say about Sam and Dean, personality-wise. And what you call my "underdog on top" preference isn't INSTEAD of thinking about their personality- it's just that I will have a very hard time dealing with it if an unequal and possibly coercive power dynamic OUT of bed is compounded by one in bed, you know? A good author may be able to make me believe in circumstances where Dean would initiate/be in control of sex with a 16 year old Sam... but I'm going to find that pretty deeply distressing. Which is fine if it's intentional, of course- life would suck if all fic was uncomplicated and schmoopy.

But actually, that's the reason I can read Wincest and but not Petrellicest. The older Petrelli brother was the more dominant personality, the one clearly the aggressor and initiator in all his interpersonal relationships, the one with all of the money and conventional power, and the one who clearly was in both practical and emotional control in their relationship. There was no way to get those two brothers in bed together without squicking me beyond my ability to deal. So which roll I find myself assigning to the character has to do with their personality- but the underdog-on-top thing will just have a lot to say about whether I LIKE the pairing.

And the stuff you say about J2 and at the very end of your rant? Yes. Completely agree.

And about Jack/Daniel? I... uh... could not possibly disagree more. Heh. I will put that in a different reply and you can feel free to ignore if you like.
 
posted by [identity profile] eboniorchid.livejournal.com at 09:22pm on 23/09/2008
Jared/Jensen (CW RPS) - I'm much less wedded to top!A/bottom!B here than I am in my other OTPs, but that's because we know little enough about their lives such that a good author can lead me down a path that varies a bit more from my usual tendencies. Personally, though, in my own fanon (based on what little we do know), Jensen's shy reserved nature fits very well with the notion that he's a somewhat submissive bottom type, especially when multiple accounts say that he's more relaxed and personable and happy when Jared is around. Jared is assertive like a really happy puppy who wants to play and is clearly protective of Jensen (evidenced by Jensen's reactions to him), so it makes sense that Jared would be an amazing sorta-dominant top for Jensen. I can believe, though, that if they are progressive males open to exploring this with each other that they would also be open to (and perhaps even specifically interested in) switching things up on occasion, which is why I say A usually tops but can bottom sometimes.

It's true that tops in the bedroom may not seem so outside of the bedroom, but I do think that some of people's bedroom personalities really can be reflected in their everyday lives. I think if you followed the high-powered corporate executives who like to submit, you'd see how much they're exhausted by their leadership positions, even if they like the work, and you'd begin to see how submission would be a glorious escape, just exactly what seems reasonable for them to want/need. I think, similarly, that if you wandered around with the quiet bookstore clerk who's a nightly dominatrix, you'd see how much quiet joy she gets out of controlling the way in which her designated sections are organized and how deeply she smiles when her regular customers call her ma'am and request her advice on gifts, because she revels in receiving the respect that's due and being able to mold things in an image pleasing to her. Excluding people who hold tightly to social masks, I think most people are at least somewhat their true selves all the time and that essential self is often what writers are working to reveal and examine through intimacy, so I don't think it's necessary or even all that reasonable to throw out what we know of the characters just because we haven't literally seen them fucking. I really don't believe the slate is blank and that any character might possibly do anything. You really have to sell me on the connection between who they are during the day and who they are between the sheets.

Phew! *wipes brow* Sorry about the length, dude. You just got my gears turning.
 
posted by [identity profile] dreamlittleyo.livejournal.com at 12:09am on 24/09/2008
Wait, I'm unclear. Do the options pertain to writing or reading of these pairings? I find I'm flexible when it comes to READING the pairings, but not when writing them.
 
posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 04:05am on 24/09/2008
I was referring to reading on the whole, more than writing. because more people are readers than writers. but I am interested in both.
 
posted by [identity profile] samescenes.livejournal.com at 01:12am on 24/09/2008
I don't know how people won't read a fic if they don't like it when someone bottoms. 'Cause it's so hot when they switch.
 
posted by [identity profile] leighm.livejournal.com at 04:18am on 24/09/2008
I like Sam to top but occasionally someone writes a very convincing top Dean that is just as effective for me as Sam topping.

I like for them to both be a switch in general. Sam topping more but sometimes being the bottom as well. It depends on the mood and circumstance of the fic. When I write them, I usually can't predict who is going to do what until I get to that part. Sam is typically the dominant one, though.

With J2, I have a stronger preference for Jared to top even though I like them both as a switch. I like when both like to give and receive. Oh so hot.
 
posted by [identity profile] tj-smartz.livejournal.com at 08:34am on 24/09/2008
Sam/Dean - my preference is for Dean to be bottom just coz I really see him that way. And I'm very rarely convinced when I read Dean topping fics. But there are the occasions where I am convinced and the porn is just too smoking hot or the relationships and situations make toppy!dean totally believable.

Jared/Jensen - I just love the idea of Jared manhandling Jensen. But any which way for those two and I will read it with pleasure.
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