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rivers_bend: (women: ff waist)
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Well, it made ME giggle.

posted by [personal profile] rivers_bend at 10:17pm on 03/03/2009 under ,
I was reading an article today in the New Yorker about the "lesbian" separatist movement in the 70s. Ariel Levy says (emphasis mine):
The feminist Ti-Grace Atkinson went so far as to claim that her brand of celibate "political lesbianism" was morally superior to the sexually active version practiced in her midst. Atkinson was not alone in this martyred line of reasoning; a 1975 essay by the separatist Barbara Lipschutz entitled "Nobody Needs to get Fucked" urges women to "free the libido from the tyranny of orgasm-seeking. Sometimes hugging is nicer." This argument was never particularly compelling to the lesbians in the movement who were actually gay.


Hilary Clinton is on my TV, wearing a largish gold pendant. Inigo is trying to play with it.
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There are 29 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
ext_17092: heart shaped flames (legs)

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posted by [identity profile] gestaltrose.livejournal.com at 06:52am on 04/03/2009
well go figure... *snorts*

*loves you*
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 06:56am on 04/03/2009
I mean! LOL.

*smishes*
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posted by [identity profile] missyjack.livejournal.com at 06:56am on 04/03/2009
OH DONT GET ME STARTED. One of the remnants of that is an academic called Sheila Jeffreys who is/was a "political lesbian" and her disdain for desire still permeates her work which remains hateful towards anything to do with sex.
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 07:02am on 04/03/2009
It just... IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

Sure, I can see being down with oppression by men, BUT GIVE UP ORGASMS???????? I DON'T THINK SO!

Surely if you posit that you need to do without orgasms altogether if you don't have men, you are putting the power of orgasms onto penises. and I am sorry, but penises NOT required. It's utterly infuriating. I also have major issues with straight women claiming lesbianism because they hate/don't get along with/want to be free of men. LESBIANISM ISN'T ABOUT MEN! It's about women. OY.

But oh, I do love dry wit writing like that :D :D
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posted by [identity profile] missyjack.livejournal.com at 07:08am on 04/03/2009
didn't you know the pursuit of orgasms is a goal-oriented activity that is inerhently both patriarchal adn capitalist in nature? *headdesk*

I think i will go and have an orgasm in protest!
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chemm80: (Dean subs porn)

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posted by [personal profile] chemm80 at 04:50pm on 04/03/2009
and I am sorry, but penises NOT required.

Or even really all that effective, in my experience. Whoops. Was that TMI?
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 05:02pm on 04/03/2009
I'm not really a believer in TMI when it comes to friends :D

Penises are, at least, good at providing orgasms for men. Thank god, or sam/dean would be SO much harder to write!
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chemm80: (Dean/Sam)

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posted by [personal profile] chemm80 at 05:19pm on 04/03/2009
I'm not really a believer in TMI when it comes to friends :D

Glad to hear it. Obviously I don't have much of a filter.

Penises are, at least, good at providing orgasms for men. Thank god, or sam/dean would be SO much harder to write!

Less fun to read as well, I suspect. I think that's at least part of the attraction of m/m erotica for me--I'm turned on by (and a little jealous of) the fact that there's really no question of everyone getting off, that they don't have to take it slow, and the sense of urgency that allows for.
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posted by [identity profile] cbomb.livejournal.com at 08:12am on 04/03/2009
Random Sheila Jeffreys reference! Sorry, I go to Melbourne Uni and although I haven't taken any of her classes I have heard tell. I am so confused/shocked/bemused by her philosophy. Not sure if it's worth taking on one of her classes just to get really angry at her...
*returns to lurkdom*
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posted by [identity profile] missyjack.livejournal.com at 09:01am on 04/03/2009
*waves* hi fellow Melburnian! I have been able to generally ignore her in recent years but I occasionally see her interviews with her - her stuff around trans* gender is hateful in the extreme. I always find it incredibly ironic when she rails against patriarchal institutions given she has tenure at Melb Uni! (not that i'm dissing Melb Uni - I went there too!)
Edited Date: 2009-03-04 09:06 am (UTC)
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posted by [identity profile] tabularassa.livejournal.com at 07:21am on 04/03/2009
LMAO

♥
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:39pm on 04/03/2009
I just love the subtle wit of that :D :D
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posted by [identity profile] gaffsie.livejournal.com at 09:25am on 04/03/2009
Haha. Gee, I wonder why that was.
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:39pm on 04/03/2009
INDEED! IT IS A MYSTERY! ;D
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posted by [identity profile] tj-smartz.livejournal.com at 10:44am on 04/03/2009
And it made me actually choke out a proper snort. And, because I am a huge geek, read up on celibate lesbians in the 70's because the concept is just sooooo out there!

*muah*
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:41pm on 04/03/2009
It's and interesting article. Not that I've finished it yet. But it is interesting. For sure.

Glad I could give you a giggle! :D
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posted by [identity profile] victorian-tweed.livejournal.com at 01:26pm on 04/03/2009
Barbara Lipschutz ?

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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:41pm on 04/03/2009
Apparently so :D
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posted by [identity profile] kryptyd.livejournal.com at 01:57pm on 04/03/2009
Huh, that's weird. I wouldn't look down on or feel sorry for people who don't need/like sex, but it certainly isn't something to boast about.
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:44pm on 04/03/2009
Oh yeah, definitely not looking down. But when they are trying to say that is how to be a good lesbian? NOT FOR ME, THANKS. If that is how you want to be a good feminist, that is your business but some lesbians actually are women who love women in THAT way :D
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posted by [identity profile] deirdre-c.livejournal.com at 02:46pm on 04/03/2009
I don't care whether someone is celibate or not; the very notion of one kind of sexual experience being superior to another is essentially the root of the problem! One of the crucial points (to me) of the political movement for gay rights is the very notion that how and how often I get my orgasms--within the realm of consenting adults-- is not a concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter).

Besides, orgasms > no orgasms
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:51pm on 04/03/2009
The notion of claiming lesbianism when you have no attraction to other women is one thing, but deciding that to be good lesbians all your fellow lesbians must not have sex because you find the sexual options open to you distasteful and you don't want anyone else to be having fun you can't have... yeah. NO.

And heeee! convincing girls who actually LIKE sexing girls that hugging is morally and socially superior and all around better? good luck!
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posted by [identity profile] gregoria44.livejournal.com at 03:44pm on 04/03/2009
Ariel Levy makes me laugh, too!

You lesbians, eh? Always wasting time seeking the big O when you could be having wholesome hugs instead.

*rolls eyes*
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 03:52pm on 04/03/2009
At this point? I'D TAKE THE WHOLESOME HUGS. But SHEESH! Bring me the big O, too. :D
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chemm80: (confused winchesters)

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posted by [personal profile] chemm80 at 03:53pm on 04/03/2009
This argument was never particularly compelling to the lesbians in the movement who were actually gay.

I suspect this is true of anyone in possession of an actual libido, yes? Fuck me. Or you know, don't, I guess. I don't know. I'm so confused! *weeps*
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posted by [identity profile] rivers-bend.livejournal.com at 04:35pm on 04/03/2009
*weeps with you*
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posted by [identity profile] chocolate-frapp.livejournal.com at 06:05pm on 04/03/2009
yeah, I read that too. that was weird.
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posted by [identity profile] talia-sparkle.livejournal.com at 07:30pm on 04/03/2009
It sounds to me like she couldn't get any.
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ext_25649: House sucking a lollipop while staring at Wilson (wilson_wtf)

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posted by [identity profile] daisylily.livejournal.com at 12:40pm on 05/03/2009
*brain breaks*
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